Off suboxone since 11/09. I still feel crazy.

[dissaray22]

I have good days and bad days, but the fact that I REALLY REALLY want to use isn't going away.  I haven't but everyday it seems i'm falling back into old patterns and I can't stop myself.  I've always lived a double life, and am having trouble being straight forward.

While I was on suboxone, I thought it was a miracle.  I thought that all i would have to do is w/d from them and then psychologically i'd be cool. 

it's not so cool being sober. as least not yet.

peace,
chris

[jagannatha]

Chris, though I've never taken Suboxone, I've done some reading about it and from what I've heard, it does take a while to fully recover. The brain and central nervous system have a lot of adjusting to do. I don't know how long you were using, but the longer you depend on opiates/opioids, the longer it takes for the brain chemistry to right itself. So part of the craving is the brain crying out for a fix, and part of it is how easily conditioned we become in our habits. And the longer we use drugs or alcohol or whatever to feel good, to have fun, to cope, the more rusty we become at those basic things.

I'm glad you are talking about it here. There is a guy named FishBuzz who was writing pretty often as he was going off Sub but it's been a while. I'll see if I can get a hold of him. He might have some words of wisdom for you.

Honesty with yourself and your friends and family is key to getting through this phase of it -- and life in general. Being accepting of your nature, in whatever shape it's in, and being patient with your struggles and inabilities will go a long way to bringing you some peace. A lot of the time, we just haven't learned those skills involved with self-acceptance and self-fulfillment. It's about becoming your own best friend. Easier said than done when we are so habituated to taking a pill or zoning out instead of just looking at what is.

Keep trying to tolerate the urges -- you know exactly where they will lead you and you'll have to go through withdrawal all over again. A lot of the unhappiness that comes post-withdrawal is part of the process of -- again -- our chemical changes. Have you done any reading on PAWS? Post acute withdrawal syndrome? It can last quite a while. Try to ride it out. It will get better.

Jag

[FishBuzz]

Hey Chris...

I was on Suboxone for years.  It's hell getting off it.  The mental side seems to be the killer. Once the physical withdrawels went away...  I felt normal for a a few days... but then that feeling of like "I'm missing something"
just seems to keep coming back. I personally feel it's the brains way of net yet knowing how to feel good on its own yet. 

What has helped me out immensely is that I'm also on Welbutrin extended release... I dont know if you have a doctor that can prescribe that for you butif you do... ask him to cuz it will help.  If not..I would suggest doing dome research on natural and things that help boost you Seratonin and Dopamine ...  I've heard passion flower is good for that although I have never personally tried it.  There are others out there as well.

Hope that helped.  Hang tough...  Own it... don't let it own you... 

Best wishes....
mike

[jagannatha]

Thanks for chiming in, Mike. How did your gig go a couple of weeks ago? How are you feeling?

I had to perform last Saturday night, singing for 2 hours straight and it was fun! My first time performing in years without some kind of substance in my system!

I hope all is well.

jag

[dissaray22]

Thanks for the advice guys.  I've actually been on Welbutrin xl for a few months, and i can't say if it's made a difference or not.  i haven't used so perhaps it has.

[jagannatha]

Glad you have the Wellbutrin. Sometimes it's hard to gauge how you are doing because the changes can be incremental. As I said before, I've read that going off Suboxone take a LONG time to fully get it out of your system and complete withdrawal. Try to be patient and know that that incredibly strong urge to use is coming directly from the substance itself, not your real "self", certainly not the part of you that should be in charge of your well-being.

I have found it helpful to keep busy, and have gone back to my yoga and meditation because that helps absorb my mind and give me peace. It also really feels good to help other people in any way you can. Drug use makes us extremely self-centered and pleasure-oriented. We want to feel good and we want it NOW. That kind of mentality never leads to true happiness. It's like the high -- short, temporary and not deeply fulfilling. It ultimately keeps us in a fog of illusion and keeps us from living our actual lives.

I just wrote this to someone else on this site who had been using for 12 years, and he's only 27. Now's the time to do some exploring of your Self, find out who you are, what you like, observe yourself and the world and try to distract your mind from what you can't do, what you can't have to what you CAN do. We get so beaten down, sometimes it's hard to believe that our lives can be meaningful adventures without drugs. There's so much more. Now's the time to start dreaming of possibilities, new projects, new hobbies, new places to go, new things to open up to, etc.

The only way to get rid of a bad habit is to replace it with a new one.

Keep posting and let us know how it's going. You are definitely not alone. It's tough, but you are doing it. It'll get better.

jag

[devilsdandruff]

 Suboxone is amazing! Wayy better than killing yourself from w/ds. You have to really wanna quit before you do. After the last two weeks I never wanna touch any opiate again! My body has been starting to feel normal (kinda) and all I needed was 3 subs, lots of vitamins, and L-Tyrosine after 2 yrs of mental and physical dependance. If you can't quit maybe you should try getting help from someone close. My family and friends have been really supportive of me after they finally knew how bad my problem really was. After the last couple months of me being a zombie drug runner for Oxycontin and Opana I had reached rock bottom..but Suboxone is pulling me outta the pit. You should really try it!

[jagannatha]

Chris,

How are you? Are things getting any better? Let me know what life is like for you lately.

peace,
jag

[dissaray22]

I used to think suboxone was amazing, too...until I got off it!  I'm still grateful for the time it gave me to become ready to quit, but it was just a postponement.

Things are 'bout the same.  I feel like things are getting too clear.  I stopped using because life was too foggy but not it is frighteningly clear.  I'm seeing an LADC and I don't think it's helping too much.  I end up just thinking about using the rest of the day after. 

I graduate from nursing school in May and the program I'm is extremely stressful.  I'm hoping that once school is over I'll be less obsessive with my thoughts of using because my stressors will be cut drastically.

And just for clarification from devil's post... I was on suboxone a whole year, and stopped in November... so i have tried it!

I'm occasionally seeing glimpses of things that maybe are the real me, but, again, I don't know that person is.  I'm just scared for a "real" crisis to occur, because I'm just waiting for something to happen so I have an excuse to go use again.

Chris

[sorryone]

Hi Chris
 Thanks for the update.  Yes Nursing school is very stressful but so worth it once you finish.  You will have so many options - working in a hospital, private MD, home care, hospice & the money is very good.  But only if you are clean. There is another nurse that posted that lost her job, has 4 years of intense therapy & other consequences because she got caught taking 2 pills that were going to be thrown out.  She loves nursing & now she can't do it for 4 years.  It was so sad to read about it.  Once you are working in the field you won't be able to hide it from the other professionals & you won't be giving the patients the best care they deserve.

I have the unfortunate personality of "waiting for the other shoe to drop" & it stinks. I am working on changing the way I think thru NA & and addiction group.  We use to numb but then we miss out on life.  There will be ups & downs & a crisis or two but using doesn't make them better, it means you will have to deal with it later. Not a good thing.

So stay on the right course & enjoy the summer having graduated from Nursing School!  Keep us updated & stay strong, we will be here for you in a crisis also.

[jagannatha]

Hey Chris,

Good to hear from you again, though I'm sorry you are still having a rough time. I can't imagine the pressure you must be feeling at the end of your nursing education, but you are almost there and that will be a big relief -- and a source of inner pride that you completed your degree.

It is scary to see all the different aspects of ourselves surface, but those things come and go and change, so try not to be too affected by what you see and feel. Sometimes it's helpful to spend a little time just allowing yourself to feel all those things and try to accept them, and be your own unconditional friend. It's not easy, but it's a good practice. Actually, I feel that beneath all the changing, sometimes disturbing parts of ourselves, there is a core to who we are that is amazing, lovable and capable of living an adventurous life. We really don't get much training in seeing that part of ourselves in this culture.

You've already seen the unpleasantness of using drugs for happiness. There's no point in going back there, so try to resist those urges. There is much more happiness -- real happiness -- available in life. We just have to try to break the old mental habits of negativity and fear. Seeing our thoughts with awareness is a good start, and that's what is happening at this point.

Don't give up! You are doing great!

jag

[edarrin]

Reading this made me think of the many parellels (sp?) of my experience the last time I got clean. It makes me seriously doubt it's got anything to do with the drug suboxone specifically and what you are experiencing is PAWS. It took me about 6 months to start sleeping better and 1 year to get as good as it got. I think that's the time it takes for your brain/nerous system to adapt back to normal. Short version.

That's 100% clean. Nothing more than chamomile tea for relaxing. Had to find new ways. That wasn't easy but I made it that time. Now I face pretty much the same thing again.


So hang  in there. You've made it this far. Soon it will get better. If you use you will face it all over again. I think it is the enevidal (sp?) part of getting clean cannot be avoided. Your brain didn't get  screwed up (what it really did was adapt as bast it could) overnight. It won't get fixed any easier . A lot depends on substnace and length of addiction and the social determinents of health.

Basicaly that means if you have a safe place to live, an income, some type of a program one is following and adequate follow up care coupled with intrinsic (within yourself) desire the  chances are good.

[harley_larry]

chris,

               if the subs were working so good for you and everything was going great. please tell me why you discontinued them. all i hear on these forums is how bad the wds are, well if if they are making your live more enjoyable why stop them. this is what i am trying to figure out, if it works, stay with it as you would if you were a diabetic or had high blood pressure. please shed some light on this for me, it would help me to understand more.


                                 thank you

                                                        harley

[view_askew]

This wasn't aimed at me, but I'm going to try to offer an answer anyway.  (This is also my first post on the forum, so please bare with me.)

I just started subs on Monday this week.  So, this is my day #4.  Speaking strictly for myself, though I imagine the sentiment is the same for most people, put succinctly - Suboxone is simply a substitute.  It works very well for curbing the w/d symptoms, but it's still a drug.  It's more a matter of replacing one with another.  While subs work as an easier taper, they're still just another drug. 

Personally, I started taking them as a way to discontinue taking Opana for pain relief.  I've been taking Opana ER twice a day, and the IR version four times a day, for the last nine months.  I'd been on Vicodin ES for several years prior to that.  This was all taken as prescribed, and I seldom deviated from my prescription (occasionally one extra tablet as required for mitigation of pain).  The subs are going to cost me the exact same amount per month as the Opana.  Though, in actuality, they will ultimately cost me more -- given that I had to start seeing an additional doctor in order to begin the treatment program.  In the long run though, the primary decision making factor is simply being in control of my own life. 

I realized that I was no longer in control when I had a "good pain day".  So, I skipped my pain medication.  Within twelve hours I was so sick, I was almost incoherent.  Dreams started leaking into reality, the typical stomach/intestinal issues, flu-like aches, etc.  As soon as I took a tablet to curb the body aches, everything cleared up.  It was at that moment I realized I was no longer in control of my own life.  If I wanted to be able to function like a normal human-being, I would have to take the pain medication regardless of my physical pain levels.  That is the one-and-only reason for discontinuing the Opana.  So, recently, I convinced myself to flush them.  It was either that, or I knew that I would loose the nerve to get back in control of myself.  I would continue to justify it to myself with the, "well, the doctor said it was o.k....  so, it's o.k." mentality.  It's happened to me every time I had considered quitting the pain medications.  Presently, my back and neck are absolutely killing me.  BUT...  The pain aspect is nothing in comparison to the depression caused by being a slave to some foreign substance.  There are three things in the world that I'm willing to consider as things I must take in.  They are food, water, and oxygen.  If it's not on that list, I shouldn't be required by my body to ingest it.

Now, given that the Suboxone tablets are simply a substitute for the full-on narcotic, and I'm taking them as a way to curb the w/d symptoms, even these are going to eventually need to be stopped.  Because, at the most basic level, taking one drug to substitute for another drug is of no real benefit in the long run.  If I were willing to let myself be controlled by the Suboxone, why would it not have been easier to simply stay on the Opana?

Of course, for everyone there is a unique element that is going to push you to discontinue using the opiates.  Ask yourself, "is it cost, availability, legality...?  or do you simply want to be in control of yourself?"  If it's the last one, then you can understand why the Suboxone too will eventually need to be discontinued.

Granted, like I said, it's going to be different for everybody.  Maybe, in some cases the motivator is that you just want to replace something illegal with something that won't get you in trouble.  That's perfectly o.k., and is far better than being jailed, arrested, or in the worst possible case...  deceased.  It doesn't matter.  The only thing that matters is that you're willing to command yourself to take control, and do something about that aspect which you're unhappy about.  It doesn't matter what the problem is as long as you're willing to look for a solution.

[harley_larry]

askew

  that was such a nice reply, thank you. i have a herniated disc and have had it for years. to try and make it short, i was getting oxycontin from 2 different drs for the simple fact that i loved the feeling and still do, eventually it got to where the 2 monthly scripts were not making it till it was ready to be refilled.i found myself out of meds and knew that the horrible wds were comming around the corner fast and i was scared to death. i had no choice but to call my dr. and came clean with him. he tried to help me to taper off and start me on methadone and i didnt like that idea at all. anyway we ended up at total disagreement and went our seperate ways. i went to a detox facility and made it 4 days and 4 nites. all i know is that it was h*** all the time i was there. i thought that i could stay at home and be more comfortable and not be spending $1000.00 a day for this place. anyway it was just a few days that i was buying hydros off the street and it is expensive and very stupid. to be honest i didnt want to quit but i know that i have to or ill end up dead. the cravings that i have to battle every single day is killing me. this is why i am asking about the suboxone program . if they will help me with the wds and help control my mental cravings i think i mite have a chance at life. but reading these forums is confusing me soo much, you know, one says that they wish they had never started them and others say how glad they were that they are using them because they were saving their lives. i just dont really know what to think anymore. and then you hear about how bad it is to get off them and read another forum and hear how easier it was to discontinue than regular opiates. i love this place and all the people on here sorryone has been so nice as so have others.in short just if you dont mind please let me know how you are doing. if they will keep me off the street drugs and curb my cravings then thats the way i think i need to go.right now i am trying to taper and it is getting tougher each day. but i know that i will always crave these and it is so sad that all i can do is go to bed thinking about dope and the first thing on my mind when i awake.

                                       thanx again for listening

                                                            harley